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Coming to Terms with Vick as the Eagles’ Starting QB… Again

Aug 21, 2013, 3:15 PM EDT

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There may not be a more outspoken critic of Michael Vick the football player than myself since his arrival in Philadelphia in 2009. It’s got nothing to do with past criminal behavior – he paid his debt to society. In fact, I kind of like the reformed Mike. He strikes me as a thoughtful and dare I say genuine person. I simply don’t think highly of his resume.

People often talk about Vick as if he’s accomplished a lot in the NFL. They often wonder aloud on TV or radio if we’ll ever see “the old Vick” from his Atlanta days, as if that one-read-and-take-off style made him a good player. Sure, the Falcons got a couple trips to the playoffs out of it, and Vick frequently made highlight reels, but he never grew as a quarterback during his six seasons there. People forget he might have been on his last leg in ATL anyway before it abruptly came to an end.

Then Vick joined the Eagles and ascended to franchise quarterback in about one year’s time. He was definitely a different player, actually trying to run an offense for probably the first time in his life. They smoked a few bad teams, and Vick’s flaws went overlooked for a month or two before the most predictable thing ever happened. Right as he was winning over some of his biggest detractors, defenses started catching up with him again.

2010 was not as great as people remember. That’s not to say Vick’s Comeback Player of the Year award wasn’t warranted. There were just so many times the season could have gone wrong earlier than it did. It could have been Week 2 when Detroit was blitzing the hell out of Vick in his first start, but the defense couldn’t capitalize on his mistakes and the Birds snuck out of there with a win. It could have been the night of the Miracle at the New Meadowlands, where Vick was about as bad as bad can be for 52 minutes before suddenly becoming Superman.

Eventually his luck did turn though, and glaring imperfections caught up with him much as defenses did. The Vikings embarrassed the Eagles on a Tuesday night in what was a clueless performance by Vick, and two weeks later he was heaving the decisive interception in a first-round playoff game at home. Since then, it’s been nothing but a cocktail of soul-crushing turnovers and devastating injuries.

Hey, don’t take my word for it. The numbers speak for themselves: a 56.3 completion percentage; 177 touchdowns to 121 turnovers (run/pass); a pedestrian 80.6 passer rating; an 8.6 sack percentage, which ranks 153 out of 196 all-time among qualifying players; appeared in 16 games only once; has just two playoff wins. Take those over a 10-year career, and they’re not very good. Kind of makes four trips to the Pro Bowl ring hollow, and if it was any player besides Vick, you’d be wondering how they still have a starting job in the league.

Yet here we are again. Vick will be the Eagles’ starter this season, and just like I had to come to terms with it in 2010, when I knew it ultimately wouldn’t work out, I have to come to terms with it now.

One way it’s different this time around is at least I agree he should be starting. Holding an open competition at the position was the right thing to do, and he won fair and square. It’s not like when Kevin Kolb was groomed to take over, was shuffled in and out of the lineup for two quarters until he got concussed, and then was replaced. (Why did they ever trade Donovan McNabb in the first place if they were going to do that?) Vick legit earned this.

It’s still difficult not to associate No. 7 with failure though. 30 preseason snaps no matter how awesome doesn’t change the fact that for 10 years this has been the type of quarterback who will always choose to freelance rather than play within the offense. He holds on to the ball far too long, gives it to the other team, then goes down with an injury once the season has already spiraled out of control. Why should we believe anything else will happen now?

Maybe you believe he is a fit for Chip Kelly’s offense, which promises to make the most of Vick’s athletic ability, while perhaps also simplifying the decision making. Maybe it’s because he’s in the best shape of his life, or that he was able to rekindle his passion for the game. Maybe a quarterback just can’t fail in Kelly’s system – it’s not like Nick Foles had any trouble moving the offense. Or maybe you along with many others will choose not to believe this story plays out it any manner other than the same as it always has until Vick proves unmistakably otherwise.

I can’t tell anyone how they should feel, because I’m undecided myself. I figured if accuracy and decision making and protecting the football were all virtues, Vick would lose an honest quarterback competition almost anywhere, probably would have a long time ago. But he didn’t, and I saw that with my own eyes. To top it all off, what he managed to showcase in two preseason games was nothing short of tantalizing. It was almost like a movie trailer for a comedy where I know they showed me all of the funny parts, but I kind of still want to see it anyway.

With Vick it’s never been a question of talent, he’s just never been able to play the position the way the NFL demands. Of course, Chip Kelly might be on the verge of bucking a lot of league trends this season, so maybe he can with Vick, too.

There’s no denying Vick has evolved. He’s a leader now, not just in the sense that he was in Atlanta where he was a celebrity and guys looked up to him. He’s an inspirational leader, a dedicated worker and teammate, a locker-room guy, a tone-setter – somebody who demonstrated change is possible both on and off the field. But if he’s going to find success again or ever eclipse the somewhat modest accolades compared to his star, he will have to continue evolving.

If he can do this Chip’s way, Vick has a chance to be the best he’s ever been. Yeah, for the very first time I honestly believe that. And I’ll clutch that belief firmly while I once again prepare for the worst if you don’t mind.

  1. hitnrun - Aug 21, 2013 at 4:07 PM

    I’m skeptical-yet-hopeful as far as Vick’s performance goes, but I don’t think that even matters. He runs a lot. He gets hit. He’s not good enough at dissecting pressure. He gets hit again. He’s 6’0″. He goes out.

    Contrarians pointed out last year that Vick was actually in less danger running than when he was in the pocket behind the Eagles’ karaoke night offensive line. Let’s hope that means he’ll stay healthy, but at a certain point you have to acknowledge that luck, or at least size, might be a skill.

    Reply
  2. Bob - Aug 21, 2013 at 6:51 PM

    Very fair article. I happen to share the exact feelings and reservations about Vick.

    Reply
  3. Keith - Aug 21, 2013 at 9:32 PM

    I do not understand why people are not talking about Phillips Rivers he is worst than Michael vick in the turnover category for the last 2 years. Reporter just continue to give him a break.

    Reply
    • Andrew Kulp - Aug 21, 2013 at 9:46 PM

      Because what Philip Rivers is doing in San Diego isn’t relevant in Philadelphia, number one.

      Reply
      • 33 - Aug 23, 2013 at 12:11 PM

        nor anywhere else

    • phillyroni - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:48 PM

      They can count ??????

      Reply
  4. Jgid - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:13 PM

    This article fails to mention the amount of times 7 was on his back last year and the year before. No matter who you are, if your line does t protect, you get hit and get hurt. When you get hit as many times as he did last year, you lose confidence and the ability to make good decisions because your are constantly worried about getting hit. Oh, and its not like andy took some of the pressure off of him by handing the ball off to one of the best backs in the league, he just kepted asking 7 to throw the ball 40 times a game. So lets be fair in all aspects!

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    • Andrew Kulp - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:21 PM

      Well as long as we’re being fair in all aspects, the Eagles actually had one of the better offensive lines in the league in 2011.

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      • Jgid - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:22 PM

        Yet we still didnt make the playoffs and vick was hit all the time. Im not saying vick didnt have his fair share of mistakes, but he wasnt ” put in the right position to make plays”

      • eagle fan - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:30 PM

        It became the best in the league midway through the season. Remember it took awhile for howard mudds system to work. It wasnt unt il late in the season that we had a good line . Then vick got injured.

      • nahroots - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:31 AM

        Another misconception that Kulp gobbles up to substantiate his already flimsy argument. The line didn’t come together till the tail end of the season.

        And I like how you marginalize Vick’s preseason thus far, even though we all know you’d be gushing over Foles if he won the competition.

        Let me know when Kolb has his breakout season. Still waiting…

      • John Z - Aug 22, 2013 at 10:07 AM

        While there’s enough blame to go around, especially to Andy, you don’t need the best O-line in the league to run an offense. They’re all professional ball players that were taken over many upon many of their peers. Additionally, as a QB, you have mere seconds to get rid of the ball. Half a second too long can be the difference of a completed pass to disaster. The whole team was dysfunctional but let it be known that Vick gets an F for his work in the pocket. He avoided it like the plague which made it easier for DE’s to run strait to him. Those instances are where you’d see Vick get crushed with a tipped ball and interception or fumble. In other words “disaster”. He put himself in danger a lot. I’m not a genius but it doesn’t take one to see his frantic pocket presence. Watch the tape if you can find some footage. And coaching is as much to blame for it.

      • joe nardonesson - Aug 22, 2013 at 11:16 AM

        If we are going to be fair we must also point out that 7 has never had an ability to go through his checks when blitzed. Never. When Foles came in last year in a game that I attended the receivers were shocked at how quickly the ball was being delivered. Shocked. I am not saying Foles is even average, but this rhetoric about Vick taking shots is tired and actually a bit naive to say the least.

        Quarterbacks are often at fault for taking shots. As was mentioned Vick had a great line the second half of 2011 and he was below average.

        He also simply is not intelligent enough to know when to slide. A quarterback who does not slide is neither tough nor macho. He is just stupid.

        Lastly, Vick owes everything to his previous coach. The Eagles were the only team willing to take him on. Looking back on their decision it was an obvious mistake, but again Vick owes Reid and the Eagles a tremendous sense of gratitude.

        It’s not like he’s Steve Young. Actually, he is far closer to Vince Young.

    • Jason - Aug 22, 2013 at 12:44 AM

      Indeed

      Reply
    • John Z - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:38 AM

      While you make some valid points, it should be pointed out that sacks are not so cut and dry. He was responsible for a portion of those hits and sacks. He holds onto the ball too long due to his lack of understanding what the D is doing and never really stepped up in the pocket yet chose to drop further back into pass rushing lanes. It’s more difficult to get to a QB if you have to run passed the tackle and come up into the pocket. A lot of times there was a direct path to crushing Vick.

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    • Steve - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:43 AM

      Last year Vick was sacked 28 times,Brady 27 times,Schaub 27 times,Ryan 28 times,,,,,,Stop making excuses for Vicks performances.

      Reply
  5. Curtis - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:30 PM

    The funny thing is, I have been saying this and arguing with Vick nuthuggers during these 1st 2 preseason games exactly what a lot of what you pointed out. I don’t have the optimism as you though. It was preseason with Vanilla defenses and teams know how to stop Vick. Chips system isn’t gonna stop teams from blitzing Vick and causing him to get rattled and start making mistakes. It is only a matter of time. It just sucks that we have to waste a year for Chip Kelly to figure that out. I thought he was supposed to be a genius. Guess not.

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    • Bob - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:54 PM

      We don’t know that we have to wait a full year. Chip strikes me as a no bullshit coach. He won’t stick with Vick if the ship is sinking, seems smarter than that

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    • jak - Aug 22, 2013 at 8:07 AM

      Totally agree with you Curtis. Once Vick is pressured, he’ll panic and become his usual turnover machine. Hopefully Matt Barkley or a drafted QB next year will eventually be able to run the offense in a few years. This season is gonna get ugly I’m afraid……………

      Reply
    • Dub - Aug 22, 2013 at 10:39 AM

      He is a genious, you’re idiot who doesn’t know anything about what really matters to a coach and how he makes his choices so of course you feel the way you do. Only fools live in the past, remember that!

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    • phillyphanatic77 - Aug 22, 2013 at 3:12 PM

      My god you bitch more about the ppl who are willing to give Vick another chance than Vick himself. Have you noticed that barely any of the ppl you deride as “Vick nuthuggers” are predicting success for #7? Simply that he clearly beat out Foles for the job. Time to come up with another adjective. What you don’t seem to realize in your crusade against Vick is that this was a QB-competition orchestrated by Kelly. If he was going to base his evaluation of Vick solely on past performance he wouldn’t have given him a 1-year deal. He would have let him walk. But he’s a smart coach. He wanted to see how the QBs on this roster perform in HIS offense, not Reids, Reeves, or Jim Mora’s. And that’s what he did. He had a competition, and Vick clearly won. And for you automatically assume that it’s going to be a wasted year bc the guy you didn’t want is under center, is laughable.

      This is a clearly a transition year anyway. It doesn’t matter who’s distributing the football, this isn’t a playoff team. So what does it matter if they go 6-10 instead 7-9. Just bc Foles or Barkley aren’t starting doesn’t mean the entire development of the franchise will be stunted. Even if either of those guys took a majority of the snaps, it’s almost a guarantee the Birds will take a QB in the first 2 rounds next April, when it’s a much, much deeper class. You think everyone was a supporter of McNabb when he was under center? Thank god you’re not running things. Instead of incessantly hating on the organization, why don’t you try enjoying the fact that, in a transition year, the franchise actually has direction under a new regime.

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  6. phillyroni - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:38 PM

    Vick’s failures in 2010 had as much to do,, if not more with Andy’s failure to adjust his offense to what defenses were doing to his TEAM and not just his QB.
    Since then (with the exception of the 4 game run at the end of 2011) the line has STUNK,, ESPECIALLY last year. And by stunk I mean to the point that Tom Brady could not have operated successfully.
    AND,, Andy never adjusted his offense to counter the MILLIONS of blitzes that were thrown at them.
    This year I THINK ( I don’t claim to be a swami or know everything) Chip will be able to counter WHATEVER defenses will do.
    We will see soon enough.

    Reply
    • rjbac1 - Aug 22, 2013 at 6:23 AM

      excellent honest reply phillyroni..You hit the nail on the head…

      Whomever this culp character is he sounds just like the rest of the biased media hacks who take any and every opportunity to criticize Michael Vick and lay 100% of the blame on him. Even though any IDIOT SHOULD know that there were many factors including Oline injuries and poor play calling by AR/MM that caused most of the failures. Plus the defense was terrible too…It’s only interesting because the rest of the country actually has honest writers who tell the truth about the situation here over the last 2 years…It Really gives one food for thought concerning the motives of these so called philly sports writers doesn’t it…IMO of course…Cheers…

      Reply
      • rjbac1 - Aug 22, 2013 at 6:39 AM

        One more thing,

        I will give Andy reid credit for adjusting just once last year…In the second half of the Lions game he started using short outs, screens, some runs and even some slants to take some of the pressure off of vick…IT ACTUALLY WORKED and after Vick Hit maclin on that slant for a 70 yd TD we had a ten point lead with five minutes left…Of course the Defense BLEW it! But in overtime, reid went right back to trying to throw long passes and the rush came in two and three at the time and gave vick little chance but to be sacked…Andy couldn’t even stay with the plays that got them the second half lead…Just the same old same old..IMO, Coach kelly will not make these type of mistakes this year….later…

  7. Bob - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:50 PM

    It is sad that we have to celebrate a great 15 passes from an 11 year veteran in the preseason.

    Foles was my preference but anyone can see the ability in Vick. As an Eagles fan, I’m rallying behind him. My faith isn’t sky high in Vick but maybe Chip taps that full potential.

    I believe Chip when he says he tailors his offense to personnel. As much as I respect Andy, a welcome change

    Reply
  8. eagle fan - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:32 PM

    Refs really need to start callin shit when vick gets fuckin killed sittin in the pocket. Its a disgrace the way they abuse him.

    Reply
    • Kelly Muldoon - Aug 22, 2013 at 12:02 PM

      I heard Mike Shanahan is going to be with the Eagles Team. Mike Sanahan Said I am coming to help Michael Vick Today.

      Reply
  9. neizee lockjaw - Aug 22, 2013 at 12:39 AM

    Damn….put that article together pretty well I must say kulp….guess thats why you get paid to do it!! Lol…honestly the only thing I can hope for is Vick staying healthy…the battle between him and foles on the field was respected by me…nothing given, everything earned…if it was foles time he would have won PERIOD…i never had a doubt in my mind it would be vick…but i respect the thought of “i know who you are but show me what you got”…but the feel…the thought of a defensive coaches headache to stop a healthy dose of the run game, flying Jackson, tight ends, and a mobile quarter back is reason to feel hype and hope for healthy bodies!! Don’t need him to take off, jus keep the chains moving…only thing is he gets me annoyed when he’s talking about slide…sliding…I’ll work on it….but when I watched him take off the other week he goes head first and almost caught a good shot in the kidneys…that’s typical Vick stuff we don’t need…

    Reply
  10. Luke - Aug 22, 2013 at 5:19 AM

    I liked the article myself. thought it was fair to a point. 2011 the eagles did have a great line vick just couldn’t see the guy comin off the edge even if it happened every play. not to mention andy reid not making the proper ajustments during the game to prevent it. then in 2012 the line play was horrible and depleted by injury. I am 29 years old and have been and eagles fan the whole time. I have never been excited about a season like I am about this one. even if I predict an 8 and 8 and not winning the division im excited to see how chip creates space for a very fast offence. my only concern is the wide receiver position I really cant see cooper lasting to long after every defence in the league hearing his comments in the off season. id really like to see howey work his magic and bring in a big talented beast to take the pressure off Jackson and I don’t think harbor or cooper are the answer. if Jackson goes down we have serious issues even if Johnson has similar speed. all in all I don’t think a quarterback can fail in this offence if the line holds up it seems like theirs always an outlet pass or a check down. its up to vick to find it if there isn’t anything down field. as long as defences respect the speed its gonna be wide open

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    • Jake - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:28 AM

      Odds are better for Cooper playing the whole season than they are for Vick.

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  11. Colonel Klink - Aug 22, 2013 at 6:17 AM

    I love the “he paid his debt to society” comment. He paid his debt to the criminal justice system. Any felon knows that getting a job is extremely difficult once you have been convicted of a felony. That’s part of the deterrent for committing a crime. But of course, it you run a 4.3 40 there is no deterrent because the NFL will pay you millions regardless of what you have done.

    Reply
    • rjbac1 - Aug 22, 2013 at 2:09 PM

      hey, you ever do jail time…klinky…Just another hill person who is clueless right ‘Richard”…Maybe they should put you in jail for looking at that porn you keep on your computer…Bet you’d never think of the shower as a respite ever again boy…..LOL…

      Reply
      • Jake - Aug 22, 2013 at 5:38 PM

        Sounds like you must have some unpleasant memories from the showers in jail, boy. LOL!

  12. Rick f - Aug 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM

    I have read almost every article on Vick and yours is the first I actually agree with. I hope we are both wrong about Vick but I believe when teams start game planning for him it will be the same ole song and dance. Thanks for the informative and honest review of Vicks career and glad to see your not drinking the cool aid as everyone else is.

    Reply
    • rjbac1 - Aug 22, 2013 at 6:54 AM

      What? You ARE joking correct..Almost every hack in philly takes any opportunity to chastise and criticize michael vick…The man just honestly won a 5 month QB competition after performing darn near flawlessly this entire preseason and the ignorant writers can’t print positive Michael Vick articles for even 24 hours…They should be ashamed of themselves…I hope somebody’s boss reviews this mound of crapola…

      Reply
  13. Emil - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:25 AM

    Read the article, it was a good read, though some of your comments are misleading and one seems to be pulled right out of thin air, i.e. “Vick’s days in Atlanta were numbered”. Over all well written but pretty much says with every other sports writers in Philly has been saying for years.

    Not only do you guys over criticize Vick when his “numbers” are comparable to guys like Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers, but Vick was disrespected by the claim and thought that a second year player and a rookie should start over him. You wanna talk numbers? What’s Fole’s numbers or Barkley’s numbers? If you were a supervisor and you looked at their resume’ who would you hire out of the 3?

    This is the entire point of Chip Kelly and Michael Vick and every QB that has Vick’s athletic “running” ability. The Option Offense is the only offense in the NFL that twas specifically designed for a running QB. It gives the QB the option to throw or run with the ball, NOT run with the ball when everything else fails, which has been the situation for the running QB in the NFL for almost 100 years.

    We have seen what this offense can do(San Fan, Seattle, Washington). I think Michael Vick is a better QB that all the other QB’s running the Option Offense, and aside from the 49ers(arguably) the Eagles offense is better than the rest. So sit back and enjoy the ride and give Michael Vick the chance that these other 2 dimensional QB’s have had that he has yet to have up until now. He is showing you in pre-season what he is capable of, now watch him play light’s out in the regular season.

    Reply
    • rjbac1 - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:51 AM

      An excellent reply from someone who is honest and knows football…That was a nice read…Thanks…

      Reply
  14. Carol - Aug 22, 2013 at 10:28 AM

    Ummm.., would you please explain to the animals Vick tortured and murdered that “his debt to society” is paid. If they weren’t dead, maybe they would care.

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    • nahroots - Aug 22, 2013 at 11:48 AM

      you want fries with that burger?

      Reply
  15. me - Aug 22, 2013 at 11:32 AM

    Ummm, lets ask the families of the people killed by Ray Lewis, Adam Jones, Leonard Little, and Donte Stallworth if any of those guys paid there debts to society, let alone the justice system or the NFL. We live in a place called reality, not Narnia where animals talk and and monkeys fly. People are people, dogs are animals, it was disgusting what he did, but please drop it. Unless you are vegan you can’t talk cause everyone here is responsible for 1000′s of animal deaths over the course of their life, and most of those animals live a tortured terrible life before we eat them. The guy went to jail and so far hasn’t done it again, isn’t that what the justice system is supposed to do. I guess you wanted him to get the gas chamber. Unbelievable.

    Reply
    • rjbac1 - Aug 22, 2013 at 1:54 PM

      me, good post…

      IMO, Dog fighting IS wrong, but it is a cultural thing and will always exist in some areas of our country and in other parts of the world…Do these same people cry at night over bull fights? Not everyone thinks of dogs like they are mans best friend…Many people and cultures use them strictly for hard work and other things that some might find distasteful..But make no mistake about it, it is nothing and I mean nothing compared to the killing or loss of life of a human being..From what I was told, he was mostly just the money guy and had the land but he was rarely around…Does NOT in any way condone that type of conduct, but don’t sit there and try to compare it to murder, rape, kidnapping, abuse of children etc. etc..Mike Vick did almost 2 years in prison for this crime and he most certainly paid his debt to society! In some countries murder in the heat of passion, yields little IF ANY jail time,,,Try walking around in the neighborhood vick grew up in sometime, or the area showcased in the movie the blindside(where “big Mike had lived)…Then, after walking a mile in those folks shoes, come back and tell me if you would be worrying about the plight of a few dogs…It’s so so easy to condemn people when you’re looking down on them from high atop that hill…Later…

      Reply
  16. powzerz - Aug 22, 2013 at 11:59 AM

    I had to stop reading the article, defenses didn’t adjust to Mike Vick they adjusted to play calling. For the first time in his career he’ll have a balanced offense. IF they stay healthy on the offensive side of the ball I think they’ll have one of the top offenses in the league. IF they stay healthy I truly think they’ll be in the playoff hunt, d will have to play decent they’ll have a nice rotating front seven not too sure about the secondary. GO BIRDS!

    Reply
    • rjbac1 - Aug 22, 2013 at 1:20 PM

      powzerz,
      Another excellent post…It’s a darn shame there are so many biased fools on here that allow their prejudices to control their thoughts and opinions..That post of yours quickly and simply explained EXACTLY what happened and what should solve things going forward…Thanks…

      Reply
      • Andrew Kulp - Aug 22, 2013 at 2:38 PM

        You realize bias works both ways, yes? You can run around the forum all day long and accuse every person who has a negative thing to say about Vick of bias, but your defending every aspect of his life and career is a biased stance as well.

        All defensive Vick fans do is make excuses for the guy. They blame his offensive lines even though it’s well-documented he holds the ball too long. They claim he never played with talent when he had Warrick Dunn and Alge Crumpler in Atlanta, LeSean McCoy and DeSean Jackson here. They blame the coaches when Vick was proven at times to be uncoachable. Let me tell you something: when a quarterback turns the ball over, 95% of the time that’s on him. Coach didn’t make Vick not tuck the ball away when he was freelancing. Coach didn’t make Vick throw across his body into a pack of defenders.

        Now I’m not saying Andy Reid always did Vick a ton of favors with the play calling, but Donovan McNabb had a near Hall-of-Fame career under Reid, so obviously a better QB can run his system. And I don’t pretend to know every little thing that went on in Atlanta, but I do know Vick wouldn’t make the excuses his fans do — he admits he didn’t put in the work to be a great QB at that time in his career. And yeah, circumstances from year to year differ, for instance the O-line being all banged up last year.

        But here is the most simple fact of all: in eight years as a full-time starting QB in the NFL, he’s led his team to three playoff appearances and won two games in the postseason. That’s all. Let that sink in for a moment.

        You can only make so many excuses for the guy. Tom Brady won Super Bowls with less talent than Vick. The Colts, a perennial playoff team, were a 2-14 team when Peyton Manning went down. I’m not saying he has to be on their level, but when you look around the league, what established quarterbacks is Vick better than? None of the seven active QBs to win a Super Bowl, that’s for sure. Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo are all more prolific to say the least. Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin have already shown more poise in one season than Vick ever has.

        If one is being honest with his or her self, Vick’s career has been pretty average at best. The guy has all the talent in the world, nobody can take that away from him, but for a lot of reasons he has not been consistently great. So go ahead, blame everyone for that besides Vick, tell me I’m biased, but the numbers for 10 years don’t support any dissenting opinion.

      • gimmesumlettuce - Aug 22, 2013 at 2:58 PM

        Wow, Kulp, wow. Where to begin with this butt hurt?

        You just summed up Vick’s career as “only winning two games in the postseason”. OK, fine. I let that sink in. But you then proceed to declare Romo as “more prolific”. Hmm..interesting. By my count, Romo has ONE playoff win. What a fruitful career he’s had, huh?

        And nice job with the elementary-level cherry picking of Brady and Petyon. Gold star for you!

      • Andrew Kulp - Aug 22, 2013 at 3:15 PM

        I probably should have been more specific. By more prolific, I meant statistically. Romo has thrown for 4,000 yards four times with a passer rating of 95.6. He’s been something of a choke artist in big games, an intangible that can’t be ignored, but even with that (which as we’ve seen time and time again in sports is a label that can be shaken) if you had to choose between Vick and Romo, I think it’s pretty much a no-brainer who the better QB has been. Beside that, not sure how you can say I cherry-picked two guys when I named 12.

    • nahroots - Aug 22, 2013 at 1:26 PM

      this.this.this.

      I LOVE when these writers say something along the lines of “The league figured VICK out.” Oh, really? So that’s it then, huh? The league figured em out so there’s NOTHING the coaching staff can do to counter. They have no choice but to stick with the same plan and allow other teams to exploit its weakness.

      What a cop out.

      Reply
      • rjbac1 - Aug 23, 2013 at 4:00 PM

        excellent post nahroots…The hack who wrote that article doesn’t know what he’s talking about…STATS often times don’t even tell HALF the true story…ALSO,

        Please if you or anyone has the time you have got to go to bleedinggreennation.com and read the article:
        “What makes you think vick will play better in chip kelly’s offense” it is an honest and truthful unbiased article that explains in great detail about the different offenses vick played in and why some were more successful than others…As an example: it explains that after teams started using all out blitzing, Reid started MAX protecting leaving EIGHT or nine men in to block leaving only 2 or 3 recievers AND NO HOT READ to get rid of the ball to…If both receivers were well covered, which happened often, Vick had nowhere to go with the ball and noone to throw to…Just a sitting duck trying to survive…I don’t believe kelly will ever do that to vick…Thus, he will have a return to form…As long as the Oline is as good as we think it is…Cheers…

  17. Emil - Aug 22, 2013 at 3:32 PM

    Hey Kulp,

    How many years did it take Peyto Manning to win a SP? How man years did it take John Elway to win a SP, how many years did it take Dan Marino to win a SP?

    Yes we all are biased a bit, but you are taking an extreme stance?

    Reply
    • Andrew Kulp - Aug 22, 2013 at 3:44 PM

      It’s not all about any singular metric. Winning is an important one for quarterbacks, but obviously for a number of reasons we can’t judge a player purely on that. And even if you want to look at that, some QBs may not have won Super Bowls early in their careers or at all, but their teams (and specifically the three above) were in the playoffs essentially every year they were in the NFL, which means they at least had a chance to win every season — the same can’t be said for Vick. But of course, it even goes beyond that. Do you really think Vick’s career is worthy of being compared to those Hall of Famers based on sheer numbers and accomplishments? Come on. THAT is the extreme stance here.

      Reply
      • Emil - Aug 23, 2013 at 8:02 AM

        Good morning Kulp,

        Ok. Now you are claiming it’s not all about any “singular metric”, but in your article that was the main crust of your argument. Remember how you have Vicks stats splashed all throughout your article? Now your argument shifts to “who was in the playoffs more”. Maybe because you looked at Elway’s stats and Marino never won a SP you had to shift your stance. But then I digress since at the end of your post above you go right back to stats, even though you started the above post with “Its not all about any singular metric”.

        Like I said, Vick has an offense specifically designed around him now, to showcase his 2 dimensions at the QB position. He has not had that since college. In the pre-season this year Vick has a 113 QB rating and a whopping 90% completion percentage. Yes, I know it was only a few snaps, BUT, he is showing you what he is capable of when an offense is built specifically around his talents.

        So just keep this page bookmarked and we will be seeing who will be eating crow come January.

      • Andrew Kulp - Aug 23, 2013 at 1:38 PM

        So bookmark it. How will I be eating crow? I concluded by saying for the first time I believe Vick could be in for a special season (and I probably should have couched that by saying since he was an emerging player, because I hadn’t formed an opinion before I saw him play), but I’m going to prepare for the worst based on his history. I think that’s fair. You think he’s already accomplished something.

        And I haven’t shifted my stance at all. You think just because you float some perceived similarities with quarterbacks like John Elway, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning that you can change the landscape of the argument and devalue my points one at a time. Well those guys all put up huge numbers, and they all gave their teams a chance to win every year. There is no comparison. It would be a waste of time for me to break down in each case why those guys are celebrated and Vick is not because no rational human being could possibly believe he belongs in that conversation. Get a grip.

      • Emil - Aug 23, 2013 at 3:42 PM

        See this is what I mean. You media guys over criticize Vick and then on the other hand you over congratulate others, I get you don;t like Vick or whatever, but as the media you should be a little less biased.

        I don’t think Vick has already accomplished something, BUT I think he can and will accomplish something. How long did it take for Elway and Peyton Manning to win a SP? BUT before they won a SP did their history show that they wouldn’t win one. It sure did, but guess what did that stop you for rooting for them and thinking that either would win a SP. NOPE! BUT somehow it does for you when it comes to Micheal Vick.

        I’ll put it this way, if Michael Vick’s stats for his first 11 years in the league looked liked John Elway’s, he wouldn’t be around for a year 12.

        See you in January.

  18. IamCoolel - Aug 22, 2013 at 3:44 PM

    Another losing year. Eagles front office still don’t understand. Could be a 3-13 season.

    Reply
  19. kdog - Aug 23, 2013 at 12:50 AM

    Andrew, what is your definition of success – winning the Super Bowl? Reid and McNabb had a heck of a run.

    If you can’t be optimistic then find another team to root for or bust on. Lets give Kelly a chance to work with the hand he was dealt with (other than his 1 draft).

    Sometimes players (Vick) are held back by having many coaching changes. That can make things very difficult when one has to learn a new system each year. By the way there are 15 Hall of Fame QB’s that have a regular season passer ratings worse than Vick’s, including John Elway who won his 2 Super Bowls in his last 2 seasons (yes I know he was in 3 other super bowls that he lost). The others are Starr, Tarkenton, Fouts, Unitas, Griese, Van Brocklin, Luckman, Tittle, Baugh Bradshaw, Namath, Layne, Waterfield and Blanda.

    Great coaching CAN make a difference – we shall see!

    Reply
    • Emil - Aug 23, 2013 at 8:09 AM

      Hello Kdog,

      Great points. To rehash John Elway… He played 16 season and only had 5 statistically good years, and They were the last 5,6 years of his career. He also never had a QB rating over 93. So outta 16 years John Elway only played really well starting year 11 of his career. But I’m being extreme.Go figure.

      Reply
  20. rjbac1 - Aug 23, 2013 at 8:16 AM

    So show us Mr. unbiased all your articles that are truely positive about Michael Vick…

    yeah, bias sure does work both ways eh buddy…

    AND when you write absolute lies and half truths…you need to be called on it…

    As an example, in this article you start by saying michael might have been on his last leg in atlanta?
    That is a flat out LIE! He had just signed fairly recently a new contract for a 130 MILLION dollars(with a LOT of guaranteed money) idiot! He had just rushed for over 1000 yards..He was beloved and people were devastated when he got in trouble…After that ignorant statement at the beginning of your so called article…well, It’s just a little bit hard to EVER take YOU seriously…

    Reply
    • Andrew Kulp - Aug 23, 2013 at 1:07 PM

      C’mon, man, use your head. The Falcons were on their third head coach with Vick, fourth offensive coordinator, fifth QB coach. If it didn’t work with Petrino (which it seems obvious now it wasn’t going to), how many more chances was he going to get? When you throw in all of the scandal: the marijuana water bottle, flipping fans off at the Georgia Dome, all the lawsuits, “Ron Mexico,” the road he was going down in general, how much more was the organization going to take of the middling records and Vick’s admitted lack of desire to work hard or study? Yes, he had a big contract, but they are structured in such a way where teams leave themselves outs, and I’m not saying ’07 would have been his last year necessarily, but he wouldn’t have lasted two more with the same performance. He rushed for 1,000 yards? So what. He’s a quarterback, not a running back. Vick’s way wasn’t the best way to win football games, period. THIS was the general sentiment at the end of 2006, just before the straw that broke the camel’s back:

      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1106937/index.htm

      “Is Vick’s bizarre and sometimes crude behavior offset by a r�sum� that includes three Pro Bowls, two postseason appearances and the NFL record for single-season rushing yards by a quarterback (1,039, set this year)? For now, perhaps. But the 26-year-old Vick is probably one screw-up away from being an unwanted man. His contract (he signed a 10-year, $137 million deal in December 2004) makes him tough to unload, but league insiders believe that Atlanta might try to do so. “The Falcons have to start looking at what they’re getting out of him,” says one AFC personnel director. “Is his production really worth all this knucklehead stuff?”

      Even if Vick stays away from controversy, his quarterbacking needs to improve. He hasn’t led Atlanta to the playoffs since 2004, and his quarterback rating hasn’t been above 80.0—a mark indicative of a consistent passer—in any of his last four seasons. The Falcons are hoping new head coach Bobby Petrino can tailor the offense around Vick’s athleticism, but three years ago the team was just as excited about Vick’s running the West Coast offense, and he never looked comfortable with that system.

      The Falcons hoped that by this, Vick’s sixth pro season, he would have made the transition from dazzling physical specimen to steady signal-caller—in the manner of other mobile quarterbacks such as Steve Young, Donovan McNabb and Steve McNair. Instead, it’s becoming apparent that Vick, whose career completion percentage is just 53.8, might never be anything more than a mediocre passer. Says one NFC scout, “If Petrino can come up with a system to maximize Vick’s talent, Vick might have some upside as a passer. He is getting better at anticipating where receivers are supposed to be. But what you see with him now is really what you’re going to get. He’s still going to be inaccurate at times.” Which explains why Atlanta is reluctant to trade promising third-year backup quarterback Matt Schaub.

      Fans are getting tired of Vick too. In 2005 he had the second-highest selling jersey in the league; in ’06 he wasn’t even in the top 10. Some league insiders think that Vick’s recent acting out—especially his criticism of former offensive coordinator Greg Knapp and the obscene gesture—is the behavior of a man frustrated at not being able to fulfill the expectations placed on him. “I think he’s putting more pressure on himself,” says an AFC executive.”

      Reply
      • Elatson - Aug 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM

        I dont mind you not liking or being sure about Vick, but…pick an opinion and stay with it! Don’t limp on 2 opinions so if Vick has a great year you can say “see i did say it could work.” Classic cover ya back move. Pick a side an stick with it.

      • Andrew Kulp - Aug 23, 2013 at 3:41 PM

        Why does everything have to be black and white? There are a lot of layers to this story, and I don’t see the value or sense in painting myself into a corner if I don’t truly believe what I’m saying.

        Vick has looked great this summer. He deserves this opportunity. That doesn’t mean I am convinced the result will be any different than it has been in the past.

      • rjbac1 - Aug 23, 2013 at 4:29 PM

        Come on man, you read an article in SI from another hack who has 1/10th of the true story and you think you KNOW something, LOL…Well…Just because you say it with conviction…doesn’t mean BULLCHIT to me(or make it the truth)…Another bunch of crap from a hack who didn’t like Vick…Gee, I thought they were all in philly…Now here’s the truth from somebody who actually knows something…Vick was NOT going anywhere! He was a fan favorite, I mean he was LOVED and revered, and the owner of the falcons, you know, Arthur Blank, the founder of Home depot, loved him like a son…He was so devastated when vick got in trouble that to this day he is sick about it…You guys are all so typical, pick an article and right away if it’s negative about vick, it must be true…Like I said, you don’t know what you’re talking about and you are most definitely a Vick hater…
        BTW, you have the right to NOT like him, it’s just IMO you shouldn’t be writing articles about him like you are stating facts…Basically you are just writing an editorial with your opinions and some skewed 2nd hand facts…

  21. Elatson - Aug 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM

    Lol….If u feel strongly about it, say it and stop waffling back an forth. I say he’s gonna have a great year for many of the reasons you named.
    Yeah its always a chance he may not, but based on the growth i clearly see he has made a offense that is taylor made for his ability a better O line and better play calling. I say he will play great. If he doesn’t i will admit i was wrong. Don’t be scared my friend. Say how u feel.

    Reply
  22. clubberlangphila - Aug 23, 2013 at 8:50 PM

    “There were just so many times the season could have gone wrong earlier than it did. ”

    Weak slanted hater’s argument about 2010. Everything you listed occurs in football, crazy comebacks, injuries, and lucky breaks are part of the game. We were eliminated by the Super Bowl Champs.

    Root for the guy.

    Reply
    • clubberlangphila - Aug 23, 2013 at 9:07 PM

      That sentence was weak too. Verb/Direct object: “were/just” + “could have gone/wrong” = soft-ass grammar.

      Step up

      then write like a Birds fan.

      Reply
  23. andy - Aug 24, 2013 at 7:58 AM

    shorter version of this article. i hate vick and will string together every one sided argument against him i have heard in my i hate vick coffee club.

    Reply

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