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Another Former Phillies Reliever Is Suggesting Rich Dubee Be Replaced

Jul 12, 2013, 12:00 PM EDT

Charlie Manuel and Rich Dubee care not for your criticism. (AP) Charlie Manuel and Rich Dubee care not for your criticism. (AP)

Remember Scott Mathieson, the Canadian reliever who made 15 total appearances with the Phillies over three seasons (2006; 2010-11) for a 6.75 major-league ERA? He otherwise spent nine seasons in the Phillies’ farm system before being released in 2011 and is now pitching in Japan?

Why are we talking about Scott Mathieson on a Friday afternoon? Because he’s suggesting a replacement for Rich Dubee, and further suggesting that many Phillies pitchers would be on board.

“Rod” is Phillies bullpen coach Rod Nichols, who spent eight years as the organization’s Triple A pitching coach before getting his call up to the majors in 2012.

Mathieson deleted his original tweet suggesting that he “would would love to see [Nichols] take dubee’s job,” but Mandy Housenick, Phils beat writer for the Allentown Morning Call, whom he was tweeting to, had already copy/pasted. (Nothing says high drama in 2013 like deleted tweets. Nothing.)

She added a little note about Ryan Madson and Brett Myers that’s either sincere about their relationship with Nichols or sarcastic about their relationship with Dubee. Tough to tell.

Either way, this is the second former Phillies reliever who’s suggested Dubee be replaced this season. The first one was of a little higher name value. From Jim Salisbury back in May:

“It may be time for a new voice,” [Mitch] Williams told WIP. “It’s not personal. I think these pitchers have to hear something new. What they’re doing right now just isn’t getting it done.”

Williams mentioned a dustup the two men had in spring training after Dubee scolded him for interfering with the team’s pitchers.

“It irritated me,” Williams said of the incident.

According to a source, Williams reached out to pitcher Jake Diekman and offered pitching advice and that didn’t sit well with Dubee.

“Maybe I hurt his feelings with the dustup, but I don’t know,” Dubee said. “Mitch has got a chance. He can apply to 30 teams (to be a pitching coach). You know? I’ve got no comment to that. Maybe he got upset because I spoke to him about getting involved in our pitching, where I don’t think he belongs. Maybe he’s upset at that. But I don’t think other people belong in our pitching. Again, like I said, he’s got a chance to submit a resume.”

In the radio interview, Williams claimed he taught Kyle Kendrick the changeup, a pitch that has helped the right-hander immensely as he has gone 10-4 with 2.43 ERA in his last 16 starts dating to August.

Kendrick laughed about that.

Of note, those pitchers on the Phillies’ staff, particularly Roy Halladay, immediately stood up for Dubee, and many of them reportedly have a good rapport with him. As for their performance, Seidman detailed earlier this week that the starting rotation was one of the best in baseball. The opposite is true of the bullpen.

This is a small part, but just another part, of the Phillies’ buy-or-sell, where-are-we-going drama. Lost in the shuffle of what Ruben Amaro should immediately do at this year’s trade deadline is that Charlie Manuel’s contract is up at the end of the season, and that the coaching staff could go through some changes.

Meanwhile, the Phillies have won seven of their last 10 and are making it hard for Amaro to decide about much of anything.

Dubee or sell?

  1. sfsu - Jul 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM

    PICTURED: Two guys who called a Serious Clubhouse Meeting because players weren’t treating the dugout like a cathedral.

    Reply
    • usfs - Jul 12, 2013 at 12:30 PM

      …and since that meeting, the Phillies are 4-1. Maybe they should’ve had that meeting sooner.

      Reply
      • sfsu - Jul 12, 2013 at 2:15 PM

        COLE HAMELS PITCHES WELL BECAUSE CLIFF LEE ISNT SMILING IN THE DUGOUT

  2. hitnrun - Jul 12, 2013 at 12:29 PM

    “Why are we talking about Scott Mathieson on a Friday afternoon?”

    I think you just answered your own question.

    In Mathieson’s defense, Dubee’s replacement at the end of the season is pretty likely in the event the team doesn’t make the playoffs, which is also pretty likely. So if you wanted to be charitable you could read that as assuming Dubee is going to be fired rather than calling for it.

    Reply
    • Michael Tandino - Jul 12, 2013 at 2:17 PM

      I think he answered his own question immediately thereafter by writing the remainder of the post.

      Reply
      • Mostel - Jul 12, 2013 at 7:58 PM

        I think you’re a low-life bum who steals bonds from drug dealers.

  3. Vince - Jul 12, 2013 at 12:56 PM

    Scott Mathieson proves that in Major League Baseball, an arrow-straight fastball and subpar breaking pitch don’t get you very far, no matter how good your arm is. See also: Rosenberg, B.J.

    Reply
  4. PhillyPhan - Jul 12, 2013 at 1:12 PM

    As a Pigs fan I can tell you that the pitching staff was always good when Nichols was down here. No matter how bad the team was, pitching was near the top of the IL in ERA. This season there is a decline in pitching with him gone.

    Reply
  5. Mongo - Jul 12, 2013 at 3:54 PM

    Dube has not successfully developed one young pitcher. The Phillies would be much better served if Dubee and his daft manager would pack their bags and get as far from Philly as possible. They sucked as players and they suck as coaches.

    Reply
    • lahoe819 - Jul 12, 2013 at 4:18 PM

      Did Dubee not groom Cole? I’m not looking anything up or whatnot but correct me if I’m wrong, Dubee and Cholly were on the staff for Cole and also, oh I dunno, JA Happ who was an instrumental piece of the Oswalt deal and was actually pretty good for us, and Kyle Kendrick. This team should not buy or sell at the deadline (unless they go cold from now until then, then sell sell sell). They should be stand-patters. Don’t give up whatever is left of our depleted farm system for something like Pence again. Just see what magic these guys have left if they’re in position. They’ve earned that much from us. And if you don’t think so, after the low times they pulled us out of, I have a hard time believing you’re a pre-08 Phils fan.

      Reply
      • marie - Aug 31, 2013 at 7:48 PM

        ugh!!! kyle Kendrick! please someone fire amaro?

  6. thom - Jul 12, 2013 at 5:11 PM

    CHARLIE & RICH are probably both gone after this season so RYNE & ROD can take their spots. and why is rich bitching about MITCH anyway , i thought the PHILS wanted their players to be around ex-players like mitch. that’s why they drag micheal jack off the golf course each spring or maybe that’s just a PR move & i’ve been duped again.

    Reply
  7. phillytj - Jul 12, 2013 at 5:36 PM

    I don’t get the Dubee hate… every young starting pitcher we’ve brought up has thrived here. Happ, Worley, Pettibone, etc… What have Happ and Worley done since they’ve left? They’ve stunk, actually. And who was Pettibone before he came up?! He wasn’t a super-hyped prospect, that’s for sure. He basically came up by default and has done very well. I say give Dubee the season to see what he does with the young bullpen. If he gets consistency out of those guys, then he would have more than proven himself, if he hasn’t already…

    Reply
    • sfsu - Jul 12, 2013 at 5:50 PM

      I hate Dubee because he contributes to Manuel’s perpetually terrible in-game mismanagement of the bullpen. Charlie Manuel has no idea what a high-leverage situation is, and because they assign relievers to specific innings (instead of assigning relievers to specific batters and win expectancy — win expectancy meaning, I’d rather use Papelbon in a tie game in the 7th inning than Durbin, and I’d rather use Durbin in a 5-2 game in the 9th inning than Papelbon [Manuel and Dubee do the reverse, of course, and then tell the media after the game that "we have to pitch better"]), they almost always end up with a mediocre-to-bad bullpen.

      The fact that Chad Durbin had an outrageously high GIDP-rate in 2008 and JC Romero induced a double-play ball to BJ Upton in game 3 of the World Series and Ryan Madson was probably BETTER than Lidge in 2008, means the Phillies’ bullpen was both stacked and lucky. I’m not saying Dubee doesn’t know how to teach Kyle Kendrick how to throw a changeup, I’m saying the Phillies should be able to find someone who knows what a changeup and a high-leverage situation is.

      No idea if Mathieson’s comment has any merit, but the Dubee hate is deserved, even if it’s misguided.

      Reply
      • Nick Menta - Jul 12, 2013 at 6:03 PM

        I’m not saying you’re wrong about this, because you’re not. I’m saying that if any manager used his closer in the 7th, it’d be a segment on Around the Horn the next day, which is the problem you’re speaking to anyway.

      • sfsu - Jul 12, 2013 at 6:33 PM

        My comment at 6:30 below was intended as a reply to yours, but I screwed up somehow. However, unlike Charlie Manuel and Dick Dubee, I will blame myself instead of your commenting system.

  8. sfsu - Jul 12, 2013 at 6:30 PM

    We live in a world where Charlie Manuel can black out and drive his car into a telephone pole, and receive MUCH less media-criticism than if he used Jonathan Papelbon a few times a month in the 7th inning. In 100 years people will laugh at the notion of a “closer” (meaning, a person who magically pitches better when the scoreboard reads 9 instead of 8).

    The saddest part, though, is that it won’t be a progression: people 50 years ago laughed at it.

    Reply
    • o.j - Jul 12, 2013 at 7:15 PM

      quit your whinning you insecure, clueless, thin skinned moron!

      Reply
      • sfsu - Jul 12, 2013 at 7:33 PM

        Insecure? Fuck yeah i’m insecure, but it’s mainly about the fact I have a slightly receding hairline, and that I wish I had more hair. But I knew it was coming due to genetics, so I’m confident that my insecurity will fade over time.

        Clueless? Correct, I do not have the board game. Didn’t really understand the premise, anyway. Nobody actually got killed, just tell me who the fucking killer is.

        Thin-skinned? My skin-measuring-physician told me that not only do I not have thin skin, but that his profession doesn’t even exist anyway. He also told me that you may have meant it colloquially; in which case, you should have just used a fucking hyphen to eliminate the confusion.

      • sfsu - Jul 12, 2013 at 7:34 PM

        Wait, that was a stupid response: my emotions don’t have anything to do with the fact Charlie Manuel has no idea what he is doing.

  9. Mostel - Jul 12, 2013 at 8:02 PM

    Ruben’s fault.

    Reply

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